Not the One to Answerthis wrote: You know it if you really think about it.
Because Java plays as iut is FLOSS and it is not. So we go LAMP and say F)/= off!
And yeah, I just had Java this semester and it is true: Java SUCKS!
Next semester guess what I am taking? Python!
Long live LAMP (as in PHP right now, and PHP/Python by next year)
Stop writing crappy articles and DO Y OUR JOB! Go program some app in Java and see if anyone uses it.. And I'll gte my Google Apps account and make a Hello World over there and send you a link!
Peace
That's why!
Dylan Tynan wrote: There were 7 pages of responses above, so, I confess to only reading a couple, so, forgive me if I repeat too many points that were hashed through already.....
The question posed is why do 'cool kids' (or anyone really) choose something like PHP or Ruby rather than Java. I saw a lot of answers above that are certainly correct -- it's really a bunch of reasons of course, but I think I have a handle on the main factors, which might be a little different than the "java is too complex" crowd:
1. The primary reason is that PHP & Ruby (and others) do a great job for most web efforts, and Java does as well. The question could have easily been posed by a Ruby guy about PHP, or a PHP guy about Perl, or a Perl guy about Java. The fact is, all of them are mature enough & powerful enough to handle most web tasks (and especially intranet tasks where Internet-level scalability & redundancy are no...
Dan Tripp wrote: > Because they've been dooped into thinking you have to
> compile Java servlets and beans to use Java or that you
> need Struts or Hibernate of JSF. You don't. You can just
> do everything in JSP if you want a quick and dirty PHP or
> Ruby like Java experience.
Who have folks been "duped" by? That seems pretty absurd to me.
I'd guess, though, if anybody's been doing any "duping" it's software developers who create Java frameworks and try to pass them off as necessary and also book publishers who want to sell you books on those frameworks.
I'm no fan of the "one language to rule them all" mentality that a lot of folks seems to embrace in favor of supporting their language of choice. I agree with Chad Fowler/ Dave Thomas' assertions about learning a new language "every year*" because that keeps one engaged in learning and developing what really SHOULD matter: one's brai...
Dan Tripp wrote: I started with PHP and Perl, later spent some time learning (some) Java, and now I'm all into Ruby (and Rails).
PHP was awesome, and opened up the world of web development for me. After a while, I thought "maybe I should learn Java" so I gave it a crack and read and re-read Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in Java." I tried to wade through the acronym soup that Java Web Application Development seemed to be, but in the end my experience with Java was that it flat-out hurt my brain.
When I encountered Ruby (and Rails) it "just made sense" to me, and it continues to make sense to me. I recently worked on some PHP code for a friend, and I found it tedious and a bit irritating to work with. I'd bet that if I spent time re-learning OO PHP and used some of the cool "new" stuff (like the Cake framework, etc.), though that I'd probably dig it too.
Java flat-out hurts my brain, i think largely becau...
Tim wrote: I've worked with the spectrum of languages and environments, from mainframe Cobol, to client/server with Powerbuilder, to web with Java/JSP. The style has progressed from a monolithic 5000 line cobol program (easy to maintain) to 5000 several-line code snippets or settings in various places like taglibs and xml descriptors (a nightmare as the app grows). The mindset that goes along with Java and the way it is presented by Sun is "let's take a simple problem and give it the most complex solution possible". Case in point: JSTL. Why learn another (useless and cryptic) language when we can use java snippets and we ALL know Java already! We're already using Java, Javascript, HTML, SQL, and a framework like Struts in any given project, so why add another when its not necessary? That's the stupidity that turns people away from Java.
Deanston wrote: Same reason why JavaScript never went away despite major forces trying to ruin its USABILITY and UNIVERSAL appeal with annoying proprietary formats like VBScript, Jscript, .NET, applets, JSP/JSF/Faces, Flash, etc. The people decided that JS is still the most user friendly dynamic web standard on the browser client - and the browser is still what the web user sees first, not middleware logic - and turned out PHP/Ruby are the most efficient glue-code to put together dynamic JS for web app UI. Look at the popularity of REST, Ajax, and SOAP - the web trend is toward efficiency, not complexity. Now if the Java community can come up with a way to make 90% of the ISPs to host Java enabled sites for as cheap and simple as LAMP packages, and convince Google and others to release their APIs in Java only instead of JavaScript, maybe, just maybe, more people will learn Java.
Rich Internet Applications offer the potential to fundamentally change the user experience and in doing so, yield significant business benefits. The theme of this October's AJAXWorld Conference & Expo 2008 West is 'Beyond AJAX to the RIA Era' and the Call for Papers, which is still open, specifically encourages submissions from exceptional speakers with high-quality use cases of the fast-emerging RIA alternatives.
The business value of RIAs is very clear: aesthetics do matter and users would like a pleasant experience.
Most enterprise applications are based on old client-server technology with high cost of ownership and lack of flexibility. Switching to the Web as a platform for mission-critical applications is very appealing as it lowers the TCO significantly.
Industry experts are arguing that enterprises now realize that endorsing Web 2.0 is going to happen via RIAs. Improving the user experience and adding interactive visualization is just the starting point. RIAs also offer scalability, reliability, performance, and security on par with what they are used to with old client-server technology.
Ideal candidates are front and back-end engineers who have first-hand experience in the development or implementation of Rich Internet Applications and enterprise-level use of rich-web technologies, executives of companies engaged in such driving business value out of such activities, and/or analysts/VCs with a passion for helping to unleash the business value of RIAs.
.NET, Java, and Open Source (LAMP) developers involved in building, deploying, or maintaining RIAs and IT/IS management involved in IT integration and related issues are also welcome.
If you have something substantive, challenging, and original to offer, you are encouraged to submit a proposal. In the proposal, please highlight previous speaking engagements including classroom or course work. Please provide contact information that will allow us to reach you to evaluate presentation skills. Past SYS-CON Events speakers do not need to provide references.
Benefits of Being a Member of the AJAXWorld Conference Faculty
Speakers will receive unprecedented visibility in pre-conference promotions. They will also receive exposure via the accompanying AJAXWorld Conference & Expo 2008 West conference portal for many months prior to and following the conference. Sessions may be recorded and made available via the Internet to a wider audience (at the discretion of SYS-CON Events). Speakers will have the benefit of attending the entire conference as our VIP guest, with a complimentary Golden Pass (Full Conference pass).
Guidelines for Submitting a Proposal
All submissions become the property of SYS-CON Events. All conference breakout sessions are vendor-neutral.
Proprietary or confidential material should not be included.
About Jeremy Geelan Jeremy Geelan is Sr. Vice-President of SYS-CON Media & Events. He is Conference Chair of the AJAXWorld RIA Conference & Expo series, of the all-new Cloud Computing Conference & Expo, of the 4th International Virtualization Conference & Expo and founder of Web 2.0 Journal, AJAX & RIA Journal and other major SYS-CON titles. From 2000-6, as first editorial director and then group publisher of SYS-CON Media, he was responsible for the development of all new titles and i-Technology portals for the firm, and regularly represents SYS-CON at conferences and trade shows, speaking to technology audiences both in North America and overseas. He is executive producer and presenter of "Power Panels with Jeremy Geelan" on SYS-CON.TV.
Not the One to Answerthis wrote: You know it if you really think about it.
Because Java plays as iut is FLOSS and it is not. So we go LAMP and say F)/= off!
And yeah, I just had Java this semester and it is true: Java SUCKS!
Next semester guess what I am taking? Python!
Long live LAMP (as in PHP right now, and PHP/Python by next year)
Stop writing crappy articles and DO Y OUR JOB! Go program some app in Java and see if anyone uses it.. And I'll gte my Google Apps account and make a Hello World over there and send you a link!
Peace
That's why!
Dylan Tynan wrote: There were 7 pages of responses above, so, I confess to only reading a couple, so, forgive me if I repeat too many points that were hashed through already.....
The question posed is why do 'cool kids' (or anyone really) choose something like PHP or Ruby rather than Java. I saw a lot of answers above that are certainly correct -- it's really a bunch of reasons of course, but I think I have a handle on the main factors, which might be a little different than the "java is too complex" crowd:
1. The primary reason is that PHP & Ruby (and others) do a great job for most web efforts, and Java does as well. The question could have easily been posed by a Ruby guy about PHP, or a PHP guy about Perl, or a Perl guy about Java. The fact is, all of them are mature enough & powerful enough to handle most web tasks (and especially intranet tasks where Internet-level scalability & redundancy are no...
Dan Tripp wrote: > Because they've been dooped into thinking you have to
> compile Java servlets and beans to use Java or that you
> need Struts or Hibernate of JSF. You don't. You can just
> do everything in JSP if you want a quick and dirty PHP or
> Ruby like Java experience.
Who have folks been "duped" by? That seems pretty absurd to me.
I'd guess, though, if anybody's been doing any "duping" it's software developers who create Java frameworks and try to pass them off as necessary and also book publishers who want to sell you books on those frameworks.
I'm no fan of the "one language to rule them all" mentality that a lot of folks seems to embrace in favor of supporting their language of choice. I agree with Chad Fowler/ Dave Thomas' assertions about learning a new language "every year*" because that keeps one engaged in learning and developing what really SHOULD matter: one's brai...
Dan Tripp wrote: I started with PHP and Perl, later spent some time learning (some) Java, and now I'm all into Ruby (and Rails).
PHP was awesome, and opened up the world of web development for me. After a while, I thought "maybe I should learn Java" so I gave it a crack and read and re-read Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in Java." I tried to wade through the acronym soup that Java Web Application Development seemed to be, but in the end my experience with Java was that it flat-out hurt my brain.
When I encountered Ruby (and Rails) it "just made sense" to me, and it continues to make sense to me. I recently worked on some PHP code for a friend, and I found it tedious and a bit irritating to work with. I'd bet that if I spent time re-learning OO PHP and used some of the cool "new" stuff (like the Cake framework, etc.), though that I'd probably dig it too.
Java flat-out hurts my brain, i think largely becau...
Tim wrote: I've worked with the spectrum of languages and environments, from mainframe Cobol, to client/server with Powerbuilder, to web with Java/JSP. The style has progressed from a monolithic 5000 line cobol program (easy to maintain) to 5000 several-line code snippets or settings in various places like taglibs and xml descriptors (a nightmare as the app grows). The mindset that goes along with Java and the way it is presented by Sun is "let's take a simple problem and give it the most complex solution possible". Case in point: JSTL. Why learn another (useless and cryptic) language when we can use java snippets and we ALL know Java already! We're already using Java, Javascript, HTML, SQL, and a framework like Struts in any given project, so why add another when its not necessary? That's the stupidity that turns people away from Java.
Deanston wrote: Same reason why JavaScript never went away despite major forces trying to ruin its USABILITY and UNIVERSAL appeal with annoying proprietary formats like VBScript, Jscript, .NET, applets, JSP/JSF/Faces, Flash, etc. The people decided that JS is still the most user friendly dynamic web standard on the browser client - and the browser is still what the web user sees first, not middleware logic - and turned out PHP/Ruby are the most efficient glue-code to put together dynamic JS for web app UI. Look at the popularity of REST, Ajax, and SOAP - the web trend is toward efficiency, not complexity. Now if the Java community can come up with a way to make 90% of the ISPs to host Java enabled sites for as cheap and simple as LAMP packages, and convince Google and others to release their APIs in Java only instead of JavaScript, maybe, just maybe, more people will learn Java.
Aptana announced the acquisition of Pydev. The combination of Pydev with Aptana Studio, which is approaching 2.3 million downloads, will bring Aptana's excellence in AJAX development ease to the Python community and bring Python support to Aptana's product lines. The move further reinf...
Two of the biggest launches in Rich Internet Application history took place in 2007/2008 when Adobe launched AIR 1.0 in February '08 and Microsoft launched Silverlight (September '07). At the 6th International AJAXWorld RIA Conference & Expo in October SYS-CON Events is delighted to be...
Red Hat CTO Brian Stevens, Citrix CTO Simon Crosby, Egenera CTO Pete Manca, Allen Stewart, Group Manager, Windows Virtualization at Microsoft, and Brian Duckering, Sr. Director of Products and Alliances at Symantec were the top industry executives who joined Jeremy Geelan in the 4th Fl...
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Rich Internet Applications offer the potential to fundamentally change the user experience and in doing so, yield significant business benefits. The theme of this October's AJAXWorld Conference & Expo 2008 West is 'Beyond AJAX to the RIA Era' and the Call for Papers, which is still open, specifically encourages submissions from exceptional speakers with high-quality use cases of the fast-emerging RIA alternatives. 
Two of the biggest launches in Rich Internet Application history took place in 2007/2008 when Adobe launched AIR 1.0 in February '08 and Microsoft launched Silverlight (September '07). At the 6th International AJAXWorld RIA Conference & Expo in October SYS-CON Events is delighted to be...
Red Hat CTO Brian Stevens, Citrix CTO Simon Crosby, Egenera CTO Pete Manca, Allen Stewart, Group Manager, Windows Virtualization at Microsoft, and Brian Duckering, Sr. Director of Products and Alliances at Symantec were the top industry executives who joined Jeremy Geelan in the 4th Fl...
